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Author: Doc Rich

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Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down with entrepreneur, author, and prior member of Justin Trudeau’s administration, Celina Caesar-Chavannes. They discuss her time in the Canadian government, the Prime Minister’s modus operandi, the use of tokenism over substantive contribution, and why she ultimately decided to resign.

Celina Caesar-Chavannes is a dynamic leader with an impressive track record across business, politics, and advocacy. Currently completing her PhD in Neuroscience, Celina’s research focuses on how cognitive and emotional processes intersect to influence leadership, decision-making, and self-actualization. She translates these insights into practical strategies for Cognitive Optimized Inclusive Leadership (COIL) – a program she designed to help individuals and organizations harness the power of their brain for authentic leadership, fostering deeper self-awareness, well-being, and transformation. Her leadership programs emphasize the importance of integrating neuroscience into leadership development to build more inclusive, empathetic, and effective leaders.

This episode was filmed on October 8th, 2024

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| Links |

For Celina Caesar-Chavannes:

On X https://x.com/iamcelinacc?lang=en

“Can You Hear Me Now?: How I Found My Voice and Learned to Live with Passion and Purpose” (Book) https://www.amazon.com/Can-You-Hear-Me-Now/dp/0735279594

| Chapters |

(0:00) The “We Who Wrestle With God” Tour
(0:43) Coming up
(1:15) Intro
(3:56) Celina’s role in the Trudeau Administration, an affinity toward liberal dynamism
(9:02) No prior political experience, knocking on 40,000 doors
(12:53) Celina’s background with her award winning company
(20:26) Serving as Parliamentary Secretary to Justin Trudeau: early excitement
(23:03) Very little interaction with Trudeau, not allowed to speak during question period
(30:31) Why there can’t be a gap between Parliamentary Secretary and Prime Minister
(33:31) Celina’s first meeting with Trudeau, “because it’s 2015”
(36:55) “Do you trust my judgment?” Apprehension at Trudeau’s flippant statements
(42:11) African-Canadian issues were tokenized, purposely left out of on-issue meetings
(48:59) The effects of being sidelined, loss of confidence and resolve
(52:04) “I had to be hyper-visible,” the stress of being on display as a black woman
(58:32) Personal reassessment and choosing not to follow marching orders
(1:04:57) Three establishes a pattern: why so many resigned
(1:06:36) When Celina told Trudeau she was leaving politics, “seriously not good”
(1:09:57) There’s more – Trudeau’s phone call
(1:12:44) Jody Wilson-Raybould, “sunny ways”
(1:15:51) Wounded narcissism, Celina’s last meeting with Trudeau
(1:24:04) Was it the right choice? Standing for what’s right over what is personally convenient

// COURSES //
Discovering Personality: https://jordanbpeterson.com/personality
Self Authoring Suite: https://selfauthoring.com
Understand Myself (personality test): https://understandmyself.com

Books – https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/books/

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Author: Doc Rich